Özgür Datvi !

Cemal · 15 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Bahsi geçen rapor bu mudur? ey insanlar, bir vahşi ayı 3 yaşına kadar kendisini diğer ayıların yanında mutlu yada güvende hissetmez. çünkü 3 yaşına kadar kendisini yanında güvende hissettiği annesiyle birlikte yaşar. ayıları sadece dansçı ayılarla tanıyan nilüfer hanımda bunu anlasa işler daha kolay olacak...ayılar koyun sürüsü değildir. karşılaştıklarında birbirlerine saldırmasalar da her birey kendi sahasında yanlız yaşar ve birbirlerine karşı temkinlidirler. dolayısıyla o kadar küçük bir alanda ayıların birarada bulunup nasıl bir davranış sergilemesini bekliyor acaba nilüfer hanım? bir de korku reaksiyonlarından bahsediliyor. bu hayvanın başına gelenler hangi canlının başına gelseydi korku reaksiyonları göstermezdi? Statement on the male bear cub “Datvi” at Karacabey By Lydia Kolter and José Kok The video provided by Prof. Nilufer Aytug during a meeting with José Kok and Lydia Kolter, EAZA Bear TAG, on 7th December 2007 at Ouwehand Zoo Rhenen, NL, demonstrated that the male bear cub “Datvi” is in a very good physical condition. The fact that this cub followed easily and without hesitation different persons in particular when it expected food is an unambiguous sign that it is habituated to humans. According to the report of Prof. Aytug this cub which is about 10 – 11 months old displays strong fear reactions towards conspecifics when sharing an enclosure of 1500 m². Even when the other young bears are separated in an adjacent area the animal is extremely wary and reacts with flight when those are moving around. These reactions indicate a lack of socialisation with the own species to a degree which is unknown at the facility of Karacabey, where orphaned cubs (in the age of 3 to months) are successfully introduced to each other every year. The male “Datvi” was approximately 11 months and thus considerably older, when re-introducing was attempted. The release of bears, which are in general shy creatures but might become dangerous in case of habituation to humans, is still a matter of debate in the community of bear experts and conservationists. Hand-rearing of cubs from an early age inevitably implicates a certain degree of habituation. At least in American black bears (Ursus americanus) this does not necessarily negatively interfere with later release attempts as long as contact to humans is restricted to very few individuals – at best just one person. In this way a habituation to humans in general is avoided and instead the fear reaction towards our species persists. As a consequence animals reared like that should not seek contact by themselves; they should even avoid humans latest at the end of their first year of life. They should be socialised with conspecifics as early as possible and seek companionship with other bears. The ability to properly interact with members of their own species is considered the most relevant single factor which contributes to success or failure of releases of young bears to the wild. The rearing history of the male bear cub “Datvi” does not allow its release back to the wild. There is a high probability that it will take each opportunity to follow the first humans, it encounters. Because it is not properly socialised communication with migrating or resident conspecifics might fail. It might either be killed or displaced from high quality habitat into marginal habitat. This might mean starvation or – depending on the release area – entering areas with human use and increased probability of encounters with humans. As it does not fear them, it might approach people closely in search for food. Even if the bear does not do harm to humans, something which cannot be guaranteed, they in turn might feel threatened and kill it in defence of life and property. In case actual conflicts arouse there is a high risk that the behaviour of one bear is taken to blame the whole species which is counterproductive in terms of species conservation efforts. Adress: Dr. Lydia Kolter Koelner Zoo Riehler Str. 173 50735 Koeln Germany José Kok Ouwehands Dierenark PO BOX 9 3910 AA Rhenen The Netherlands -</div>

Eva · 15 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Ich möchte noch etwas nachtragen.: Das Meeting Aytug Kolter Kok fand statt in den Niederlanden in Rhenen in der 2. Novemberwoche 2007. Datvi war zum Zeitpunkt des Treffens ca. 2-3 Wochen im Shelter in Karacabey. Der Bericht wurde also vor 8 Wochen verfasst. (Quelle: PA Lutz Stamm) *** I would like to add something:. The Meeting Aytug Kolter Kok was held in the Netherlands in Rhenen in 2nd Week of November 2007. At the time of the meeting, Datvi was about 2-3 weeks in the shelters in Karacabey. The reportwas written 8 weeks ago. (Source: PA Lutz Stamm) Best wishes Eva</div>

mogzilla · 15 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Evet Cemal Bey , ilgili rapor o.Aşağıda da raportörlerin e-mail adresleri var, ilgilenenler için. Dr.Lydia Kolter E-Mail: lkolter@zoo-koeln.de Jose Kok E-Mail: info@alertis.nl</div>

mogzilla · 15 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eva" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> Eva' Alıntı: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Ich möchte noch etwas nachtragen.: Das Meeting Aytug Kolter Kok fand statt in den Niederlanden in Rhenen in der 2. Novemberwoche 2007. Datvi war zum Zeitpunkt des Treffens ca. 2-3 Wochen im Shelter in Karacabey. Der Bericht wurde also vor 8 Wochen verfasst. (Quelle: PA Lutz Stamm) *** I would like to add something:. The Meeting Aytug Kolter Kok was held in the Netherlands in Rhenen in 2nd Week of November 2007. At the time of the meeting, Datvi was about 2-3 weeks in the shelters in Karacabey. The report is written in 8 weeks ago. (Source: PA Lutz Stamm) Best wishes Eva </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Genişletmek için tıkla ...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> Bir konuyu ilave etmek istiyorum. Aytuğ-Kolter-Kok buluşması Hollanda Rhenen'de 2007 Kasımının 2.ci haftasında gerçekleşti. Datvi'nin Karacabey'deki barınağa getirilişi bu buluşmadan 2-3 hafta kadar evvel olmuştu. Demek ki rapor 8 hafta kadar evvel yazılmıştı. ( Kaynak : PA Lutz Stamm ) En iyi dileklerimle Eva</div>

Eva · 15 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Here are examples of projects for Baby Bear orphans. I like the idea of the work camps for teenagers from 16 years ago in holidays. Yours Eva ******************** Projekts to released the baby bear Orphans back in the wild as soon as possible: R o m a n i a http://www.vierpfoten.de/website/output.php?id=1070&language=1 Bear Station orphanage in Romania by "4 Pfoten" U S A Salt Lake City, Utah-84111 http://www.wildlifesos.com/ R u s s i a http://www.3sat.de/3sat.php?http://www.3sat.de/nano/cstuecke/15052/index.html Bear orphanage in Russia by Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov I n d i a Other successful projekt by Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov in India, to bring the orphan baby bears as soon as posible back in the wild http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=128568 K a n a d a http://www.wildlifeshelter.com/grizzly.htm I n d i a http://www.wildlifesos.com/ Here are examples of other solutions for orphan baby bears Bear orphans asylum in Kuterevo / Croatia http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm (Work-camp for teenagers from 16 years ago - in collaboration with Bear orphans asylum in Kuterevo / Croatia ) http://www.jrk-online.de/rueckblick/ausschreibungen/2007/kuterevo/kuterevo.htm Report about Kuterevo .......... http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:YobwTRtCw4MJ:www.waldportal.org/heimische/news.heimische2004/news.heim.20040820/index.html+b%C3%A4renwaisenhaus&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=de Sponsorship Kuterevo on Tierlobby.de http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm Bear orphans asylum in Kutervo / Croatia, together with PRO TIER for Baby "Mara" was founded following solution http://www.protier.ch/htm/protier.asp eigenes Gehege für Mara .. go to "Projekte" .. go to "pro tier international" .. next "Bärenaktion" ... have a look: "Bärenwaise Mara ist umgezogen" ....and check out ..."Neues Zuhause für Waisenkind Mara" NEW: Another project, in cooperation with PRO TIER in the Caucasus http://www.protier.ch/htm/detail.asp?ID=642 Verschiedene Projekte unter... http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:f1TWevtnxz8J:www.protier.ch/htm/such.asp%3FSparte%3D1%26Thema_ID%3D1+www.protier.ch+Bear+Foundation+(IBF)&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=de http://www.kenny-bear.com/ Own enclosure and garden house for Kenny in Austria</div>

Eva · 20 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Mit Grüßen von Eva Copie meines Schreibens *** Z.Hd. Pro Animale und Supporter (Frau Dr. Kolter, Frau Kos) ***************************** Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren, wie Sie wissen, ist die Situation der Bären in der Türkei seit Monaten unablässig in der öffentlichen Diskussion und es gibt zahlreiche Bemühungen hierzu Support zu leisten. Nun hat ihre Tierärztin im Bären-Shelter von Karacabey, Frau Dr. Aytug, über eine Bloggerin mehrere Fotoserien veröffentlicht. Siehe Link: http://f3.webmart.de/f.cfm?id=3060890&t=3220214&pg=54&a=1&r=threadview& Ich habe meine beiden Tierärzte zu den Verletzungen von "Poyratz" befragt, sie äußerten Vermutungen an der Haltung und legten nahe die zuständigen Verantwortlichen zu informieren. Aus tierärztlicher Sicht nachzuprüfen sei, wie der kleine Baby-Bär "Poyratz", der ja als Minibaby nach Karacabey kam, (siehe "Foto Poyratz and me/Poyratz mit Frau Aytug") sich unter der Obhut des Shelters an verschiedenen Tatzen diese Verletzungen zuziehen konnte. Sicher wird es eine Erklärung geben und man wird Abhilfe schaffen können. Vielen Dank und freundliche Grüße PS: Ich würde mich persönlich sehr freuen, auch gute Nachrichten aus Karacabey zu erhalten, bzw. um das Verständnis hierfür, dass weltweit Support für die Bären geleistet werden möchte; an konstruierten Feindschaften nie Mangel besteht, jedoch sicherlich weder Zeit noch Interesse. Nicht nur Sie sind der Faszination der Bären erlegen. Dankeschön. Fotos: Copyright by Dr.Aytug</div>

VitaEsMorte · 20 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Cemal" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> Cemal' Alıntı: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> değerli gönül dostlarım, olanları benden daha iyi takip edebildiğinizi biliyorsunuz. bende koşturmacalarımı biraz olsun rahatlattım. hakkımızda iyi yada kötü bir çok söze açıktı sinemiz, kötü diyenlerin ekmeklerini ellerinden almadık iyi diyenlere arpa çuvalı göndermedik,kötü idi isek bunu bilmeden yaptık eksiğimizi söyleyenlere teşekkür ederiz iyi idiysek bunu vazife bildik beklentimiz hiç olmadı. iki gündür datvinin bana geldiği günden itibaren tutulan kayıtlarını inceliyorum ve burada benimle olanlar dahil iki gözümüz iki çeşme... bu güne kadar bize söylenen kem sözün binde birini soylemedim söyleyenlere ;ama şimdi diyorumki hayvanın özgürlüğüne kast edenler dilerim ondan kötü olsunlar. ve ondan daha zeki olmayanlar artık haddini bilsinler çünkü o hayvanın hayatı onun durumuna düşenlerin bir daha aynı acıları çekmemeleri için diğerlerine öncü oldu... ancak son yazıdan içim sıkıldı datviye birşeymi olmuş? bahsedilen rapor nedir. datvi burdan gidene kadarki görüntüleri kesintisiz yorumsuz olarak herkesle paylaşacağim. ona bir şey yaptılarsa ve buradan giderken bana burdakinden iyi bakacağına söz verenler sözlerinde durmadılarsa işte o zaman ayrıca konuşacağız... </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Genişletmek için tıkla ...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> My dear friends, I know you follow the process better than me. I took my responsilibities easier now........................................................... I am reviewing the records of Datvi for two days, since I got him and we are very sad with my friends here. I did not say anything wrong to the people that talk against me in a bad manner. But now, I hope the people against Datvi's freedom get worsened! And the people who are not more intelligent than Datvi know their position because the life of Datvi become an example for the other animals who suffer the same things. But I feel very sad due to last letter. Anything wrong with Datvi? What is the report being mentioned? I will share the all recordings until Datvi goes from here. We will talk besides, if they did not look after him in a good manner.</div>

VitaEsMorte · 20 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Cemal" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> Cemal' Alıntı: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Bahsi geçen rapor bu mudur? ey insanlar, bir vahşi ayı 3 yaşına kadar kendisini diğer ayıların yanında mutlu yada güvende hissetmez. çünkü 3 yaşına kadar kendisini yanında güvende hissettiği annesiyle birlikte yaşar. ayıları sadece dansçı ayılarla tanıyan nilüfer hanımda bunu anlasa işler daha kolay olacak...ayılar koyun sürüsü değildir. karşılaştıklarında birbirlerine saldırmasalar da her birey kendi sahasında yanlız yaşar ve birbirlerine karşı temkinlidirler. dolayısıyla o kadar küçük bir alanda ayıların birarada bulunup nasıl bir davranış sergilemesini bekliyor acaba nilüfer hanım? bir de korku reaksiyonlarından bahsediliyor. bu hayvanın başına gelenler hangi canlının başına gelseydi korku reaksiyonları göstermezdi? Statement on the male bear cub “Datvi” at Karacabey By Lydia Kolter and José Kok The video provided by Prof. Nilufer Aytug during a meeting with José Kok and Lydia Kolter, EAZA Bear TAG, on 7th December 2007 at Ouwehand Zoo Rhenen, NL, demonstrated that the male bear cub “Datvi” is in a very good physical condition. The fact that this cub followed easily and without hesitation different persons in particular when it expected food is an unambiguous sign that it is habituated to humans. According to the report of Prof. Aytug this cub which is about 10 – 11 months old displays strong fear reactions towards conspecifics when sharing an enclosure of 1500 m². Even when the other young bears are separated in an adjacent area the animal is extremely wary and reacts with flight when those are moving around. These reactions indicate a lack of socialisation with the own species to a degree which is unknown at the facility of Karacabey, where orphaned cubs (in the age of 3 to months) are successfully introduced to each other every year. The male “Datvi” was approximately 11 months and thus considerably older, when re-introducing was attempted. The release of bears, which are in general shy creatures but might become dangerous in case of habituation to humans, is still a matter of debate in the community of bear experts and conservationists. Hand-rearing of cubs from an early age inevitably implicates a certain degree of habituation. At least in American black bears (Ursus americanus) this does not necessarily negatively interfere with later release attempts as long as contact to humans is restricted to very few individuals – at best just one person. In this way a habituation to humans in general is avoided and instead the fear reaction towards our species persists. As a consequence animals reared like that should not seek contact by themselves; they should even avoid humans latest at the end of their first year of life. They should be socialised with conspecifics as early as possible and seek companionship with other bears. The ability to properly interact with members of their own species is considered the most relevant single factor which contributes to success or failure of releases of young bears to the wild. The rearing history of the male bear cub “Datvi” does not allow its release back to the wild. There is a high probability that it will take each opportunity to follow the first humans, it encounters. Because it is not properly socialised communication with migrating or resident conspecifics might fail. It might either be killed or displaced from high quality habitat into marginal habitat. This might mean starvation or – depending on the release area – entering areas with human use and increased probability of encounters with humans. As it does not fear them, it might approach people closely in search for food. Even if the bear does not do harm to humans, something which cannot be guaranteed, they in turn might feel threatened and kill it in defence of life and property. In case actual conflicts arouse there is a high risk that the behaviour of one bear is taken to blame the whole species which is counterproductive in terms of species conservation efforts. Adress: Dr. Lydia Kolter Koelner Zoo Riehler Str. 173 50735 Koeln Germany José Kok Ouwehands Dierenark PO BOX 9 3910 AA Rhenen The Netherlands - </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Genişletmek için tıkla ...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> Is this the report? A wild bear does not feel himself in safe among other bears until it becomes 3 years old. Because he lives with his mother until his 3-year, in safe. Things will be very easy, if Mrs. Aytuğ, who knows bears via only dancing bears, understands these. Bears are not flock of sheep. Although they do not fight when they meet, every member lives alone in his own area and they are sober. Therefore, what kind of reaction do they expect in such a small place with other bears? They even talk about fear reactions. Which animal does not show the same reactions, having the same fate?</div>

mogzilla · 22 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eva" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> Eva' Alıntı: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Mit Grüßen von Eva Copie meines Schreibens *** Z.Hd. Pro Animale und Supporter (Frau Dr. Kolter, Frau Kos) ***************************** Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren, wie Sie wissen, ist die Situation der Bären in der Türkei seit Monaten unablässig in der öffentlichen Diskussion und es gibt zahlreiche Bemühungen hierzu Support zu leisten. Nun hat ihre Tierärztin im Bären-Shelter von Karacabey, Frau Dr. Aytug, über eine Bloggerin mehrere Fotoserien veröffentlicht. Siehe Link: http://f3.webmart.de/f.cfm?id=3060890&t=3220214&pg=54&a=1&r=threadview& Ich habe meine beiden Tierärzte zu den Verletzungen von "Poyratz" befragt, sie äußerten Vermutungen an der Haltung und legten nahe die zuständigen Verantwortlichen zu informieren. Aus tierärztlicher Sicht nachzuprüfen sei, wie der kleine Baby-Bär "Poyratz", der ja als Minibaby nach Karacabey kam, (siehe "Foto Poyratz and me/Poyratz mit Frau Aytug") sich unter der Obhut des Shelters an verschiedenen Tatzen diese Verletzungen zuziehen konnte. Sicher wird es eine Erklärung geben und man wird Abhilfe schaffen können. Vielen Dank und freundliche Grüße PS: Ich würde mich persönlich sehr freuen, auch gute Nachrichten aus Karacabey zu erhalten, bzw. um das Verständnis hierfür, dass weltweit Support für die Bären geleistet werden möchte; an konstruierten Feindschaften nie Mangel besteht, jedoch sicherlich weder Zeit noch Interesse. Nicht nur Sie sind der Faszination der Bären erlegen. Dankeschön. Fotos: Copyright by Dr.Aytug </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Genişletmek için tıkla ...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> Eva'dan selamlarla Yazımın kopyası *** Pro Animale ve taraftarlarının dikkatine ( Bayan Dr. Kolter , Bayan Kos ) ********************************************************************** Sayın Bayanlar ve Baylar Bildiğiniz gibi Türkiye'deki ayıların durumu kamuoyunda aylardan beri araıksız bir şekilde tartışılmakta ve gittikçe artan bir taraftar desteği ile uğraş verilmektedir. Şu aralar Karacabey'deki ayı barınağının sorumlusu veteriner Bayan Dr.Aytuğ bir blog üzerinden bir sürü fotoğraf serisi yayınlamıştır. İlgili link http://f3.webmart.de/f.cfm?id=3060890&t=3220214&pg=54&a=1&r=threadview& Her iki veterinerime de '' Poyraz '' daki yaralanmalar ile ilgili soru sorduğumda, bana bunun bakım ile ilgili olabileceği tahmininde bulunduklarını ve ilgililer ile bilgi alışverişinde bulunacaklarını söylediler. Veteriner hekimliği açısından daha bir yavru ayı iken barınağın sorumluluğuna verilen Poyraz'da ( bakıız foto : Poyraz ve ben, Poyraz ve Bayan Aytuğ ) bu yaraların nasıl meydana getirildiği araştırılmalıdır. Mutlaka bir açıklama gelir ve nasıl yardım edilebileciğine de bakılır. Çok teşekkürler ve dostça selamlar PS : Şahsen Karacabey'den iyi haberler aldığımda çok sevineceğim ; aynı zamanda bu ayılar için dünya çapında destek verilmesi konusunun anlayışla karşılanmasını diliyorum.Bizim suni düşmanlık ve çatışmalar ile işimiz olamaz , zira bunlara ne ilgimiz , ne de zamanımız vardır.Teşekkürler. Resimler : Yayın hakkı Dr.Aytuğ'da saklıdır.</div>

Eva · 22 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! With love from Eva ******************* The Northern Lights Wildlife Society is dedicated to give injured and/or orphaned wildlife a second chance at survival. The Founders of the society, Angelika & Peter Langen immigrated to Canada in 1982. Both trained animal keepers, they had previously worked in zoos in Germany. After living in Smithers for several years, they became aware of the fact that there was no place for injured and/or orphaned wildlife to go to and that such animals ended up being killed. With great enthusiasm they approached the local wildlife branch only to find out that rehabilitation programs where met with great uneasiness by the government. After years of discussions and formulating permits, their dream finally became true in 1989. At first the shelter was used very reluctantly by the authorities. But as first success became apparent and as the public became aware of the shelters existence, the demands on the shelter grew rapidly. With the Langen’s covering most of the costs and almost all of the work involved, the shelter soon reached dimensions that required a new approach in order to secure adequate housing and care for the animals in need. As a result the Northern Lights Wildlife Society was formed in 2001 and in 2002 the society became a registered charity. The shelter is now on the threshold of a new era. The board is actively looking for sponsors and volunteers to ensure the shelter's ability to care for all wildlife that is brought to our attention. Most birds are referred to other shelters , as there are a number of excellent bird shelters available already. Though all mammals and birds are accepted, the shelter in Smithers has become a haven for bears, moose and deer. Up to 2005 a total of 102 black bears and 1 Kermode bear have found a temporary home here and have been released to the wild successfully. With many other shelter's unable to work with such large mammals, due to space and/or housing restrictions, the Smithers shelter has become a last refuge for bears from all over BC. The moose and deer raised at the shelter and released into the nearby park, have done extremely well and have proven the success of the program, by producing and raising young in the wild year after year. Careful management, thrives to prevent the animals from becoming too human oriented, as that would prove to be a hazard to their own health (i.e. hunting season), as well as to the safety of humans ( i.e. hikers ) Fortunately most animals seem to make a distinct difference when dealing with their handlers or strangers. This fact ensures that proper care can be given, while still securing the safety of other humans. Up to date non of the animals raised at the shelter have become nuisance animals. More about.....http://www.wildlifeshelter.com/index.html</div>

Eva · 24 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Hartmuth ist Betreiber und Admin von worldofanimals.de und dem deutschen Datvi Thread und er hat dies heute im deutschen Datvi Blog gepostet. Ich sende eine Copie an Gezenbilir mit vielen Grüßen, Eva ***************************************************************************************** Copie: Eine Bemerkung zum Thema Datvi: Ich habe mir nun in den letzten Tagen nochmals die letzten Fotos von der kleinen Poyraz angeschaut und komme zu dem Schluss, das einiges nicht ganz stimmig erscheint. Es ist richtig, das der kleine Bär in die Station eingeliefert wurde. Bei der Verletzung erscheint er mir allerdings schon minimal älter, so das ich zu dem Schluss komme, diese Verletzung könnte (!) auch in der Station passiert sein. Die Betonung liegt bei *könnte*. Das müsste dann überprüft und abgestellt werden, zum Wohle der Tiere. Ferner muss festgehalten werden, das die Türkei das einzige Land mit einer Bärenstation ist, in dem NICHT ausgewildert wird bzw. bisher nicht ausgewildert wurde. Indien, USA, Kanada, Russland, Rumänien und Bulgarien sind nur einige Beispiele wie es anders gehandhabt wird. Natürlich können nicht alle Tanzbären ausgewildert werden, aber ich kann mir vorstellen das unter den über 50 Bären der eine oder andere dabei sein wird, der die Freiheit wiedererlangen könnte. Dazu würde später auch Datvi gehören müssen. Das System das PA unterstützt ist veraltet, wie auch große Organisationen z.B. IVAW, IFB wspa und andere bestätigen. Die Kombination Nichtauswilderung und Zusammenlegung der kleinen Bären mit Tanzbären gibt es in keinem anderen Land. Warum dann in Karacabey, das von PA unterstützt und finanziert wird ? Es sind noch viele Fragen offen, die hoffentlich irgendwann eine Antwort finden werden. Hier einige Links zum Thema Auswilderung usw. die mir inzwischen zugesandt wurden: Projekts to released the baby bear Orphans back in the wild as soon as possible: R o m a n i a http://www.vierpfoten.de/website/output.php?id=1070&language=1 Bear Station orphanage in Romania by "4 Pfoten" U S A Salt Lake City, Utah-84111 http://www.wildlifesos.com/ R u s s i a http://www.3sat.de/3sat.php?http://www.3sat.de/nano/cstuecke/15052/index.html Bear orphanage in Russia by Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov I n d i a Other successful projekt by Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov in India, to bring the orphan baby bears as soon as posible back in the wild http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=128568 K a n a d a http://www.wildlifeshelter.com/grizzly.htm I n d i a http://www.wildlifesos.com/ Here are examples of other solutions for orphan baby bears Bear orphans asylum in Kuterevo / Croatia http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm (Work-camp for teenagers from 16 years ago - in collaboration with Bear orphans asylum in Kuterevo / Croatia ) http://www.jrk-online.de/rueckblick/ausschreibungen/2007/kuterevo/kuterevo.htm Report about Kuterevo .......... http://tinyurl.com/2jxodp Sponsorship Kuterevo on Tierlobby.de http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm Bear orphans asylum in Kutervo / Croatia, together with PRO TIER for Baby "Mara" was founded following solution http://www.protier.ch/htm/protier.asp eigenes Gehege für Mara .. go to "Projekte" .. go to "pro tier international" .. next "Bärenaktion" ... have a look: "Bärenwaise Mara ist umgezogen" ....and check out ..."Neues Zuhause für Waisenkind Mara" NEW: Another project, in cooperation with PRO TIER in the Caucasus http://www.protier.ch/htm/detail.asp?ID=642 Verschiedene Projekte unter... http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:f1TWevtnxz8J:www.protier.ch/htm/such.asp%3FSparte%3D1%26Thema_ID%3D1+www.protier.ch+Bear+Foundation+(IBF)&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=de http://www.kenny-bear.com/ Own enclosure and garden house for Kenny in Austria Auch wenn es Datvi wohl zur Zeit gut gehen sollte, ein lebenslanger Aufenthalt in Karacabey kann und sollte auf keinen Fall das Ziel sein ! Darum wird es weiterhin Informationen und Diskussionen geben. Hartmuth</div>

mogzilla · 27 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eva" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> Eva' Alıntı: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Hartmuth ist Betreiber und Admin von worldofanimals.de und dem deutschen Datvi Thread und er hat dies heute im deutschen Datvi Blog gepostet. Ich sende eine Copie an Gezenbilir mit vielen Grüßen, Eva ***************************************************************************************** Copie: Eine Bemerkung zum Thema Datvi: Ich habe mir nun in den letzten Tagen nochmals die letzten Fotos von der kleinen Poyraz angeschaut und komme zu dem Schluss, das einiges nicht ganz stimmig erscheint. Es ist richtig, das der kleine Bär in die Station eingeliefert wurde. Bei der Verletzung erscheint er mir allerdings schon minimal älter, so das ich zu dem Schluss komme, diese Verletzung könnte (!) auch in der Station passiert sein. Die Betonung liegt bei *könnte*. Das müsste dann überprüft und abgestellt werden, zum Wohle der Tiere. Ferner muss festgehalten werden, das die Türkei das einzige Land mit einer Bärenstation ist, in dem NICHT ausgewildert wird bzw. bisher nicht ausgewildert wurde. Indien, USA, Kanada, Russland, Rumänien und Bulgarien sind nur einige Beispiele wie es anders gehandhabt wird. Natürlich können nicht alle Tanzbären ausgewildert werden, aber ich kann mir vorstellen das unter den über 50 Bären der eine oder andere dabei sein wird, der die Freiheit wiedererlangen könnte. Dazu würde später auch Datvi gehören müssen. Das System das PA unterstützt ist veraltet, wie auch große Organisationen z.B. IVAW, IFB wspa und andere bestätigen. Die Kombination Nichtauswilderung und Zusammenlegung der kleinen Bären mit Tanzbären gibt es in keinem anderen Land. Warum dann in Karacabey, das von PA unterstützt und finanziert wird ? Es sind noch viele Fragen offen, die hoffentlich irgendwann eine Antwort finden werden. Hier einige Links zum Thema Auswilderung usw. die mir inzwischen zugesandt wurden: Projekts to released the baby bear Orphans back in the wild as soon as possible: R o m a n i a http://www.vierpfoten.de/website/output.php?id=1070&language=1 Bear Station orphanage in Romania by "4 Pfoten" U S A Salt Lake City, Utah-84111 http://www.wildlifesos.com/ R u s s i a http://www.3sat.de/3sat.php?http://www.3sat.de/nano/cstuecke/15052/index.html Bear orphanage in Russia by Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov I n d i a Other successful projekt by Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov in India, to bring the orphan baby bears as soon as posible back in the wild http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=128568 K a n a d a http://www.wildlifeshelter.com/grizzly.htm I n d i a http://www.wildlifesos.com/ Here are examples of other solutions for orphan baby bears Bear orphans asylum in Kuterevo / Croatia http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm (Work-camp for teenagers from 16 years ago - in collaboration with Bear orphans asylum in Kuterevo / Croatia ) http://www.jrk-online.de/rueckblick/ausschreibungen/2007/kuterevo/kuterevo.htm Report about Kuterevo .......... http://tinyurl.com/2jxodp Sponsorship Kuterevo on Tierlobby.de http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm Bear orphans asylum in Kutervo / Croatia, together with PRO TIER for Baby "Mara" was founded following solution http://www.protier.ch/htm/protier.asp eigenes Gehege für Mara .. go to "Projekte" .. go to "pro tier international" .. next "Bärenaktion" ... have a look: "Bärenwaise Mara ist umgezogen" ....and check out ..."Neues Zuhause für Waisenkind Mara" NEW: Another project, in cooperation with PRO TIER in the Caucasus http://www.protier.ch/htm/detail.asp?ID=642 Verschiedene Projekte unter... http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:f1TWevtnxz8J:www.protier.ch/htm/such.asp%3FSparte%3D1%26Thema_ID%3D1+www.protier.ch+Bear+Foundation+(IBF)&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=de http://www.kenny-bear.com/ Own enclosure and garden house for Kenny in Austria Auch wenn es Datvi wohl zur Zeit gut gehen sollte, ein lebenslanger Aufenthalt in Karacabey kann und sollte auf keinen Fall das Ziel sein ! Darum wird es weiterhin Informationen und Diskussionen geben. Hartmuth </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Genişletmek için tıkla ...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> Hartmuth worldofanimals.de ile almanca Datvi başlığının ilgilisi ve adminidir ve ayrıca aşağıdaki yazıyı bugün alman Datvi blog'unda yayınlamıştır.Bir kopyasını Gezenbilir'e slamlarımla gönderiyorum , Eva. ****************************************************************************************************************** Kopya Datvi teması ile ilgili bir görüş : Son günlerde Poyraz ile ilgili resimleri tekrar inceledim ve bazı şeylerin doğru yansımadığına kanaat getirdim.Yavru ayının bakım evine getirildiği doğrudur.Yaralar da daha önce olmuşa benziyor, ama bunlar barınakta da olmuş olabilir (!)Burada vurgulama '' olabilir '' üzerinedir.Bu tespit edilip hayvanların iyiliği için ortaya konulmalıdır. Ayrıca Türkiyenin yabanlaştırma yapılmayan ve bu güne kadar örneği görülmeyen bir barınağa sahip olan tek ülke olması da gözden uzak tutulmamalıdır. Hindistan , USA , Kanada , Rusya , Romanya ve Bulgaristan bu işlerin başka nasıl yapılabidiğine dair örneklerdir. Tabii ki bütün oyuncu ayılar tekrar yaban hayatına salınamazlar ; ama en azından 50 ayı içersinden bir veya birkaç tanesinin tekrar hürriyetlerine kavuşabileceğine inanıyorum. Herhalde buna ileride Datvi de dahil olmalıdır. IVAW , IFB wspa ve benzeri büyük organizasyonlar artık ProAnimale'nin kullandığı sistemin eskidiği görüşündedirler.Yavru ayıların oyuncu ayılarla yabanlaştırmama ve bir arada bulunma kombinasyonu başka hiç bir ülkede görülmemektedir.O zaman neden bu durum PA tarafindan desteklenen ve parasal yardım sağlanan Karacabey barınağında böyledir ? Daha cevaplanmasını ümit ettiğim bir çok soru var aslında. Aşağıya yabanlaştırma ile ilgili bir kaç link koyuyorum. Yavru öksüz ayıların süratle yaban hayatına salınması ile ilgili projeler Romanya http://www.vierpfoten.de/website/output.php?id=1070&language=1 Romanya '' 4 Pati '' yetim ayı barınağı U S A Salt Lake City, Utah-84111 http://www.wildlifesos.com/ Rusya http://www.3sat.de/3sat.php?http://www.3sat.de/nano/cstuecke/15052/index.html Rusya Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov ayı yetimevi Hindistan Yavru ayıların süratle yabanlaştırılması için Hindastan'da yine Dr. Valentin Pazhitnov'un başarılı bir başka projesi http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=128568 Kanada http://www.wildlifeshelter.com/grizzly.htm Hindistan http://www.wildlifesos.com/ Yetim yavru ayılar için diğer çözümler Hırvatistan/Kuterevo'da yetim ayılar için sığınma evi http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm 20'li yaşlı gençlerin ( 16'dan itibaren ) Kuterevo'daki sığınma evi ile birlikte katıldıkları çalışma kampı http://www.jrk-online.de/rueckblick/ausschreibungen/2007/kuterevo/kuterevo.htm Kuterevo ile ilgili bir rapor.......... http://tinyurl.com/2jxodp KuterevoDa Tierlobby.de sponsorluğu http://www.tierlobby.de/rubriken/Tiergarten/carnivoren/braunbaerwaisen_kuterevo.htm Kuterevo/Hırvatistan ayı sğınma evi ile PRO TIER'in birlikte yavru ayı '' Mara '' için buldukları çözüm http://www.protier.ch/htm/protier.asp YENİ ; Kafkaslarda PRO TIER birlikteliğinde bir başka proje http://www.protier.ch/htm/detail.asp?ID=642 Çeşitli projeler......... http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:f1TWevtnxz8J:www.protier.ch/htm/such.asp%3FSparte%3D1%26Thema_ID%3D1+www.protier.ch+Bear+Foundation+(IBF)&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=de http://www.kenny-bear.com/ Avusturya'da Kenny için çitle çevrili bahçeli ev Datvi'nin durumu her ne kadar iyi olsada bu onun Karacabey'de bir ömür boyu kalması gerektiği amacını taşımamalıdır. Bu nedenle bilgilendirme ve tartışmalar devam edecektir. Hartmuth</div>

mogzilla · 27 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Artık bu konu ile ilgili ben de bir kaç kelam etmek istiyorum.Başından beri konu ile ilgili olarak Cemal Bey'in tarafındayım.Ancak son zamanlarda yeminli tercüman durumuna düşmekten biraz rahatsızım.Tercümeler ile ilgili hiç bir sıkıntım yok.Elimden geldiğince , lisan bilgilerim yettiğince yaparım. Beni rahatsız eden dünyanın gözü bu olaya çevrilmişken, neden benim ülkemden hiç ses yok ? Yabancılar olaya bu kadar ilgili iken , neden benim yurdumun ilgili ve yetkilileri sessiz kalıyor ? Haklı olabiliriz , haksız da olabiliriz.Ama bazı sorulara da cevap verilmesi gerekir diye düşünüyorum. Gezenbilir olarak forumumuzun herkese açık olduğunu zaten biliyorsunuz.O nedenle Karacabey tarafından da açıklamalar ve bilgiler bekliyoruz. Saygılarımla</div>

Cemal · 27 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! ayrıntılara pek bakmam nadır kardeş emeğine teşekkür ederim ama mızıkmak yok unutmakı yemeğı bir kişi pışırır bin kişi yer ne yapalım şıkayet ettiklerimiz olmasa zaten hayat da böyle olmazdı... sabır ve sevgiyle kal...</div>

Eva · 29 Ocak 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Dear friends of Datvi and all the bears, here are links about projekts for the peaceful and successful Co-Existenz from humans and bears. This People do Field/indoor instruction, guiding, presentations, workshops, articles, consultation...and so on Maybe you like it. Best regards Eva By the way, thanks to gezenbilir team for translations and all the kindly help everytime. Thank you! *** http://www.cloudline.org/ www.greatbear.org www.ursusinternational.org http://www.bearsmart.com</div>

yasarergun · 1 Şub 2008

<div class="bbWrapper">Ynt: Özgür Datvi ! Sevimli ayı Knut 'Psikopat' oldu Annesi tarafından reddedildikten sonra Berlin Hayvanat Bahçesi'nde koruma altına alınan yavru kutup ayısı Knut, psikopat haline geldi. Alman uzman Peter Arras, yavru ayının doğal durumundan çıkarak insanlara çok fazla bağımlı hale geldiğini ve bir psikopata dönüştüğünü söyledi. http://www.yenisafak.com.tr/aktuel/?t=01.02.2008&c=5&i=95424</div>

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